Re: That's exactly right, and personally, I think Tracy has been unfairly accused.....

Hey...thanks for posting a thoughtful response as well!

>> I don't think the fact (if, indeed, it is a fact) that most people fail with Mary Kay makes it a scam. <<

I see how you may be differentiating a scam. Maybe something that has no actual business aspect to it? Whereas MK does have a business aspect, it is just continually downplayed or hidden during recruiting and there is so much deceit in the whole process.

>> In my opinion, it would be a scam if the only money to be made was through recruiting, and sales were made almost 100% to dealers because regular people never bought the stuff (which is absolutely NOT the case). <<

Interesting that you mention this. The company gives out very, very few statistics, as they are a private company. So we have limited information to go upon....but....

We have been trying to ferret out how much product ends up in the hands of actual customers. Best we can determine, it is a maximum of 50%, but likely much, much less.

As I mentioned in another thread, only 15% of reps stay with the company more than one year. Those who "quit" tend to have 75%+ of their initial inventory purchase left on their shelves. Let's leave aside for now the argument of whether they worked/tried hard or whether they were lazy. Doesn't matter for this purpose, as I'm just trying to determine how much ends up in the hands of true customers.

You can see my difficulty in calculating good numbers, but you can also see the direction this goes. There is lots and lots of unsold product sitting in the closets of reps.

>> Some party-plan ladies make 10% profit (at least they did in my day), so I don't think 50% is that bad. <<

You're right about that. Most of the other cosmetic companies are somewhere between 30% and 40% gross profit. But when we factor in the higher cost of samples and supplies with MK and some other nuances about ordering products, we believe the amount in-pocket for every dollar sold is about the same from company to company.

>> I also believe it's possible to refuse to stock the inventory --... <

For those who want to stay in the business, this is what I absolutely recommend. Yes, you can run a business without inventory or with very limited inventory. I've seen it done. The success rates and profit percentages are higher for those women. But the pressure from the recruiters to "invest" in inventory is incredible. Back to the emotional blackmail and such. Again, it's easy to say that they should just say NO. On the other hand, when the recruiter is supposedly experienced with the business and is supposed to be HELPING you, it is only natural to want to believe that their recommendations are sound.

>> If -- (I'm saying **IF** because I have no idea) -- people are being lured into it believing it will be "easy" or they don't have to spend any money or they're going to be raking in the bucks by next Saturday, then there's a real problem. <<

YES YES YES. That's exactly what happens. They're linking together the ideas of "do you have a few hours a week" and the women with the million dollar homes. Well now I didn't buy that far into it. But after serious discussion, I was led to believe that you could make a good living ($50k+ per year) on about 20 hours a week. That's not even close to the truth!!! These women are busting their butts 60-80 hours a week to make a measly $25k per year plus a crappy car. And on top of that, they're spending their own money to move up to the next level or retain a level on the ladder.

>> If they're being told up front that they need to stock inventory and they need to meet certain quotas and they should expect to work 80 hours a week or whatever, then people have no one to blame but themselves. <<

Nope. They're given the whole "inventory is optional" talk, and then after you sign up they say "but you can't be successful without it". Well what person starts a business with the idea of being unsuccessful? Of course you want to be successful, and if that's what it takes...

In fact, I crafted a little document with the help of fellow ex-MK'ers called "Triple Talk". Kind of an illustration of how the story changes during recruiting, after recruiting, and after you quit the biz.

>> Maybe Tracy is full of bullcaca -- or maybe she isn't. My point is simply that I don't think we know that yet. <<