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FIB - Scams 101 - Ye Olde Archives
Posted By: the roadie <wcarton@flash.net> In Response To: Re: ? re: autoresponder service, importing emails, please help (pete)
Thursday, 15 June 2006, at 7:42 p.m.
> At the risk of being hounded for the rest of my life, I'm going to tell
> you how to handle this. I agree with the majority of folks that while they
> have not agreed to a newsletter, your customers would not be terribly
> surprised to receive an email from you. Many online sellers do it.
True.
> But, as mentioned, be prepared to be branded a spammer by some. And all it
> takes in some cases is a single complaint to get your account closed.
True.
> So, what is the solution? You are operating in good faith. You are
> definitely not a spammer in the true sense, you are only contacting people
> who have bought from you in the past.
Being a spammer (sending UCE) is like being pregnant. Hard to be just a "little" bit of a spammer. The on-line archives are essentially forever.
True, the hard-core professionals have their own data base entries, and attention from law enforcement. But being branded a spammer can make it hard to find hosting at some companies. It's like being booted from an apartment for too many loud parties. You might NEED a good reference to find new hosting in a reputable apartment.
> First, if you are only going to do a few at a time, you might just sign up
> with a "throw away" ISP, that you are going to use for this
> initial contact and then move on. There are hundreds of "under $
> 10" ISP's who you can use. Go to www.thelist.com and you'll find
> plenty of them. Just do a few at a time through their mail servers.
Now you get in trouble, ethically. If the spam mentions a web site hosted anywhere, no matter who sends the email or through what path, the web site is at risk. Ten years ago, hosts might say "We can't sanction our customer because the spam didn't come through OUR servers."
That was roundly mocked by the network administration community, and called spam havening. If those ISPs didn't offer the spamvertised sites safe haven, they would have no incentive to spam.
So providers like that got to see the inside of a lot of blacklists, and the pressure is still being applied to some offshore rogue providers. But take a look at a typical Acceptable Use Policy of today:
"(d) Unsolicited Advertising. You agree not to post or transmit any unsolicited advertising, promotional materials, or other forms of solicitation to other subscribers, individuals, or entities, except in those areas (e.g., classified advertisement areas) that are designated for such a purpose. You further agree not to involve or associate RCN in any way with the posting or transmission of unsolicited advertising, promotional materials, or other forms of solicitation, including but not limited to unsolicited advertisements sent from another service provider advertising an RCN-hosted web page, and unsolicited advertisements sent from another service provider which request that replies be sent to an RCN email address."
Your advice could cost somebody their web hosting or domain registration. I don't need to flame you for that, just point out that sneakiness is of no benefit.
> Here, again, you could go to a new host and server, just for this purpose.
> That way, should the SPAMMER complaints result in losing your service, you
> have not lost your entire company's server, just the one with the
> autoresponder.
Um, no. If I got such a spam, I'd report it to the sending ISP, and to the web host and the domain registrar and the shopping cart vendor. Anything the spammer makes money from is fair game. We're not naive, you know.
> Intentions do count. I'd say you have a defensible position if someone
> does file a real complaint. Of course, the title and opening sentence will
> will be of upmost importance to get the correct message across right away.
Agreed. Intentions count AFTER the web host gets a spam complaint. They will run an investigation, and they might take intentions into account. Of course, the recipient's ISP might still add the sender to their own filter blacklist, but on their servers, their rules apply.
Evading the intent of no-spam policies is pretty dodgy advice. If you have the informed consent of every address on your list, then you have a defense against even misguided spam complaints. But without those confirmation logs, if you email to an address that now belongs to somebody OTHER than your original customer, because of age, address churn, etc., you are defenseless. To that new address owner, it's pure spam, and they're reporting it properly.
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PLEASE READ THIS LEGAL NOTICE CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU FILE A LAWSUIT OR EVEN WASTE TIME THINKING ABOUT IT. It has been done before, but never successfully. In fact, the last dodobird who tried it ended up being ordered to pay more than $77,000 in attorney fees ($65,000+ to my attorneys and $12,000+ to my co-defendant's legal advisor).
If your attorney is worth his salt, he's going to tell you that the expense of filing a lawsuit you can't win is a whole lot worse than any "damages" resulting from messages posted on this insignificant little chunk of cyberspace. NEWS FLASH: I didn't just climb down off that ol' turnip truck yesterday. I'm well aware that expressing a negative opinion, relating one's personal experience, and restating provable facts are all legal in this country and do not constitute libel, slander, or defamation -- so you don't want to play games with me, and you sure don't want to start something you aren't prepared to finish. I don't take threats lightly, and I don't accept bribes (or did you call it a "mutually-beneficial arrangement"?). I'll turn you in faster than you can yell, "ARREST ME, I'M SCUM!!" Do yourself a favor and turn your legal team loose in greener pastures. Although we may, from time to time, monitor or review discussions, postings and the like on the Friends In Business (Scams 101) Message Board, we are under no obligation to do so. We are not responsible or liable for any claim arising from the content of any such discussions or postings or for any error, defamation, libel, slander, omission, falsehood, obscenity, pornography, profanity, danger, or inaccuracy contained in any information contained within such locations on the Site. You are prohibited from posting or transmitting any unlawful, threatening, libelous, defamatory, obscene, scandalous, inflammatory, pornographic, or profane materials or any material that could constitute or encourage conduct that would be considered a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability, or otherwise violate any law. You are likewise prohibited from posting any false claims against any company or individual. We will fully cooperate with any law enforcement authorities or court order requesting or directing us to disclose the identity of anyone posting any such information or materials. By posting messages and/or content on the Friends In Business (Scams 101) Message Board, you give permission for Lesley Fountain/Friends In Business/Shoestring Success Publications to display, distribute and use the posting and content for publication, advertising, promotion, excerption or example. You grant Lesley Fountain/Friends In Business/Shoestring Success Publications complete, perpetual, but non-exclusive rights to use, archive, reproduce, adapt, modify, distribute, sub-license, repurpose, rework, compile, or offer for sale or resale the messages, postings or content appearing on this site in whole or in part, throughout the world and universe, on a royalty-free basis without remuneration. If you cannot accept or agree with the terms of service for this website and discussion board, you are advised not to post on this board. In closing, I would like to remind you once again that it is still legal, in this great country of ours, to express a PERSONAL OPINION, as long as it is presented as opinion and not as fact. And finally, all you scammers out there will do well to remember that TRUTH IS AN ABSOLUTE DEFENSE against charges of libel, defamation, and slander... so if you're operating just a hop, skip, and jump ahead of the law, you might want to think twice before doing anything stupid... (AND SHAME ON YOU!!). |