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FIB - Scams 101 - Ye Olde Archives
Posted By: Rich Hendin <firstname.lastname@example.org> In Response To: Re: Emerald Passport (The Roadie)
Sunday, 13 March 2005, at 8:39 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Emerald Passport (The Roadie)
> We never say that EPI participants are not raking it in. If you're having
> success, it might be interesting to examine how you're reaching your
Rich responds: My # 1 source is search engine advertising. I
like people to be looking for info about making money from home,
finding my ad, clicking on it, seeing my info, and then wanting
more information. Most people who try PPC exhaust their capital
before they understand how to make it work. A group of us worked
on this for months, and we didn't give up until we got it right.
My # 2 source is to purchase leads from a vendor that guarantees,
in writing, that they don't buy their leads from another company,
and they don't sell them to another company. Then I pay a little
extra to buy exclusive rights to the leads for a 30 day minimum.
My # 3 source is a company that runs ads on tv, radio, and internet
job sites like carreer builder & monster. Prospects complete a
lengthy survey form, and them they are presented with 4 opportunities, including EPI.
> Odd thing is, I can't find any proof of this on any web site. Can you
> provide any backup to this claim? Have you just accepted this claim made
> on some phone call without asking for proof?
> You claim it was for sale before the 2Up payment model. For $1295. Did it
> sell? A lot? If so, there should be SOME mention of it on the net. I see
Rich responds: Which websites have you reviewed? Try
www.wealthandself.com. It is a "product only" website where the
product is retailed for $1295 with no mention of a bizz opp.
> Nonsense. Bloody nonsense and balderdash.
> I have archived some of the "A Team" training material about
> email blasts, and how to lease a mail server on two separate hosting
> providers to run spamming software. They post a link to
> http://www.1-bulk-email.com/ for the software you need for spamming,
> including an automated address harvester.
> Then surely they should have replied to my email of 8/18/04 to their abuse
> address asking if they wanted to discuss their spamming members. They
> failed to reply.
> They are listed in SPEWS, a major blocklist, for the Tim Dunn and Bill
> Tatum spamming incidents. Are these guys still participants? I believe
> both are in line for lawsuits for their spamming.
> Powerprofitteam.com used to be registered by directi.com, but were
> cancelled after spam complaints last August. Now they're with another
> registrar that does nothing about spam complaints.
> Their former domain registration was handled by Adam Bernard, at
> lynxdigital.com, who tries to portray Lynx as a legitimate hosting
> service, but which used to have a link (I've archived it of course) for
> spamming services. This web page on lynxdigital.com used to contain the
> delicious message:
> "With PromotionExperts opt-in database of over 60 million, you will
> be able to optimize your online reach while maximizing your ROI and
> developing an overall Brand Awareness.
> With our special selects you will be able to target your audience based on
> your specific criteria. There is no limit to the depth of targeting
> Let me give you a hint: NOBODY has 60,000,000 legitimate opt-in addresses.
> Not Microsoft, not General Electric, not General Motors.
> And certainly not some little hosting outfit in Canada, who's owner also
> has a Florida address.
> And somehow, they got it in to their heads that spamming this list of
> 60,000,000 wasn't spamming because somebody said they were opt-in
> But it certainly wasn't safe to email those addresses, so the spammers got
> the bright idea to set up redirector web sites, registered at GoDaddy
> because they're cheap. That didn't sit too well with GoDaddy.
> Tell me more about this "recent double opt-in list". Are you
> saying they allow you to buy lists? And they think that permission to send
> email transfers to the buyer when a list is sold like that? Most folks in
> the network administration community know that permission rarely transfers
> when a list is sold. If the list is even comprised of people who know it
> will be sold.
> More likely, they're allowing people to buy lead lists, and many, of not
> most of these sorts of lists are now generated by spamming. The spammers
> get their victims to go visit a throwaway web site, hosted in someplace
> that ignores complaints, like China or Korea, and that web site touts the
> fantastic opportunity to be found by working at home! And when the victim
> (or an investigator) fills out the form, their data is sold as a
> double-opt-in lead. It is in no way, shape or form a double opt-in lead.
> It's just that the rate of complaints is very low because of the sneaky
> use of the form to collect data, and very few investigators go to the
> trouble to follow the train of evidence all the way to the end.
Rich responds: Don't forget to work on those anger management
skills. Also, maybe there is a supplement you can try to help
you stay with the facts. First, the A - Team is just that,
a team of distributors in EPI. Maybe they have 10% of the
whole pie. I'm not really sure. Second, the Power Profit Team
is the company that EPI fired. Remember the Cease & Desist
Order I mentioned?
The only official marketing company recognized by EPI today
is the Profit Masters Team. The Profit Masters Team does not
allow email blasting. In fact, you are only allowed to send
30,000 emails monthly from their virtual office. You may buy
leads only from vendors that guarantee that the leads were not
purchased from another vendor and will be sold to another vendor.
Your ranting and raving is misdirected. EPI got rid of that trash
as soon as they smelled it.
> I do, and have done it hundreds of times.
> Spammers often use non-approved marketing tactics. :-)
> Same way Corvette and Rolls Royce sales people do it. You don't schmooze
> them into buying the car, and then working for FREE for the next two sales
> to enrich their manager!
Rich responds: Working for free?! I spend about 25 "1 on 1" hours with each
of my new distributors. This is how I get paid. In MLM, they
would pay me forever. Here. I get the first 2 sales, and they
get all the rest. Wow - what a rip off! And please don't come
back and say, "But those 2 sales were probably their best
contacts." We teach our people to approach their warm market
only after they are successful.
> Can you name this scumbag company? In my experience, almost all of the
> leads companies are similar scumbags.
> I'm guessing it's Newport Internet Marketing (Robert Soloway - currently
> being sued by Microsoft and my colleague Robert Braver), but there are a
> lot of scumbags out there.
Rich Responds: Power Profit Team.
> "Bad leads" is a code phrase for harvested or spammed or overly
> re-sold leads. Can you describe in detail how each and every one of your
> leads is generated? I've talked to leads vendors who simply can't get
> enough legitimate addresses from their usual ethical/expensive sources, so
> they resort to buying from spammers to feed the INSANE demand.
> Until the pyramid runs out of steam. The number of gullible (or qualified
> - if you prefer) prospects HAS to run out sooner or later. Then the new
> participants won't get their training sales, and will finally see they
> have NO potential to ever make their money back. Since they're in it for
> the riches, not the benefits of owning the $1295 "product",
> they'll lose enthusiasm and the pyramid collapses.
> How many participants, seriously, fail to buy the product and limit their
> exposure to just $99?
> A few, it seems. And some spammers. When you can describe the entire
> lead-generation process for the ones YOU use, and tell me where they come
> from and that spam or address harvesting is not used in any stage of the
> process, then I can conclude you're not part of the problem. But other EPI
> members are using spam-generated leads, and profitmasters has never seemed
> willing to discuss it since they ignored me last year. If they thought I
> was some sort of crank for trying to alert them to their spam problem -
> that was a poor choice. They should have figured out who I was and that I
> wasn't going to go away.
> And they wouldn't be blacklisted as a result.
Rich responds: I believe I have addressed all these issues
already. EPI and the Profit Masters Team do not teach, endorse,
or condone spamming. I'm sure there are bad groups in every
good company. I'm sure there are bad groups in your company.
But that does not make your company bad, and it does not make
you bad. I know that it's fun, and certainly easier, to bash
companies without all the facts, and all the others cheer in
unison for you. But let's try to be a little more accurate in
our reporting to the public that looks to us for guidance and
I have a backround in journalism and insurance underwriting.
I deal with facts only, not hype, either pro or con. Whenever
I see a message board with bashing that I know is false, because
I know the facts first hand, I feel it is my duty to set the
record straight. It does not make me very popular, but my pillow
is very soft.
Quite Possibly the Most Outstanding Business on the Planet!
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