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FIB - Scams 101 - Ye Olde Archives
Posted By: Carol <cjschueler@pacbell.net>
Monday, 29 November 2004, at 9:30 p.m.
===========================
DISCLAIMER BY LESLEY FOUNTAIN, BOARD OWNER:
Attorneys are coming out of the woodwork right now (they come in spurts), threatening lawsuits if all negative comments about their client's companies are not removed from the board. Well you know what? This board would quickly become worthless if no one was allowed to speak their mind or share any negative information.
THEREFORE...
It should be noted that NONE OF THE STATEMENTS OR ALLEGATIONS IN THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE HAVE BEEN VERIFIED. They could ALL be true, there could be SOME truth in them, OR THEY COULD ALL BE FALSE (as in "sour grapes"). I have NO personal knowledge about this company, and I do NOT claim to know whether their opportunity is legitimate.
This message provides ONE PERSON'S POINT OF VIEW and ONE PERSON'S EXPERIENCE -- that of the INDIVIDUAL WHO POSTED IT, namely
"Carol"
at IP#
68.127.228.120, email cjschueler@pacbell.net --
and it is your responsibility, as the reader, to CONDUCT YOUR OWN RESEARCH ON THIS COMPANY.
You are strongly advised to CONDUCT YOUR OWN INVESTIGATION and REACH YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS. Your decision whether or not to become involved with this company should be based on A CAREFUL ANALYSIS OF THE FACTS YOU TURN UP and NOT on any individual OPINIONS OR ALLEGATIONS expressed here or elsewhere.
Finally, please read the LEGAL NOTICE at the bottom of this page. The owner of this board has NOT verified the content of this message. It represents ONE PERSON'S OPINION and ONE PERSON'S EXPERIENCE, and in the U.S. of A., people are still allowed to express their PERSONAL OPINIONS and SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCES.
The following message and the OPINIONS AND ALLEGATIONS contained therein -- which are those of
"Carol" and "Carol" alone (IP#68.127.228.120)
-- MAY or MAY NOT reflect the opinion of the owner of this board, who has NO information to prove or disprove their validity (and the last time I checked, it was still legal to keep one's opinion to oneself).
HAS EVERYBODY GOT THAT?
Good.
Carry on.
===========================
To Mike & Ed,
Mike, thank you for your insightful report on ICC. I only wish I had the means to fly to Boston and confront them in person. I'm part of an "ICC Victims Support Group" about a dozen strong (and growing), and your report confirmed a lot of our suspicions in addition to information we have been able to research from various sources. Nathan Hillman was mentioned in an Oct. 25th Google Answers report about ICC. Apparently he is listed as the founder of a company named "International Candle Corporation" back in 1975 in Boston. That company was "involuntarily dissolved" in 1983. The report states the name "International Candle Corporation" appeared on the scene again in a Massachusettes corporate filing on June 2nd of this year. The principles named in the filing were Nat Hillman Jr.(probably the son of the other Nathan Hillman) as Secretary, and Brian Theissen (pronounced "Tyson"), as President. The filing listed the address at 245 First St. in Cambridge.
Your comment about Norwood being the same company and just changing names when they get a lot of bad publicity is very interesting. One of our group called Norwood recently and spoke to a young man who answered the phone. He told her his job was "telemarketing" for candles. He also said he worked for a company called "BCT Marketing", and was hired by Brian Theissen who's email address is bthe@intlcandle.com. We think "BCT" stands for Brian Connor Theissen/Tyson, and this information would certainly seem to link ICC and Norwood as the same company, or at least operating out of the same location.
I'm also interested in your comment that "Jay Campbell...is not his real name". What makes you think that? And, I'm curious to know how you found the offices at Bremen St., and what response you got if you confronted anyone at ICC in person? What evidence do you have that "some distributors do get what they pay for"? The Guatamala candles are still very poor quality, (I've seen them!}, and in my opinion there seems to be no attempt on the part of ICC to meet even half of the promises in their sales literature. In my opinion I don't even think they care if they never get a reorder on candles. I think their money is made on selling the distributorships.
To Ed: You will need to get legal help. In my opinion the ICC folks are very practiced at their game and you will need a lawyer to fight this for you. You might want to check out the services of a good paralegal first (it's lower cost, and most of them work for attorneys), and then if it has to go to court you'll at least have a link to an attorney and will have a lot of the prliminary work on the case done by the paralegal at a lower cost. I wish you luck.
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| PLEASE READ THIS LEGAL NOTICE CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU FILE A LAWSUIT OR EVEN WASTE TIME THINKING ABOUT IT. It has been done before, but never successfully. In fact, the last dodobird who tried it ended up being ordered to pay more than $77,000 in attorney fees ($65,000+ to my attorneys and $12,000+ to my co-defendant's legal advisor).
If your attorney is worth his salt, he's going to tell you that the expense of filing a lawsuit you can't win is a whole lot worse than any "damages" resulting from messages posted on this insignificant little chunk of cyberspace. NEWS FLASH: I didn't just climb down off that ol' turnip truck yesterday. I'm well aware that expressing a negative opinion, relating one's personal experience, and restating provable facts are all legal in this country and do not constitute libel, slander, or defamation -- so you don't want to play games with me, and you sure don't want to start something you aren't prepared to finish. I don't take threats lightly, and I don't accept bribes (or did you call it a "mutually-beneficial arrangement"?). I'll turn you in faster than you can yell, "ARREST ME, I'M SCUM!!" Do yourself a favor and turn your legal team loose in greener pastures. Although we may, from time to time, monitor or review discussions, postings and the like on the Friends In Business (Scams 101) Message Board, we are under no obligation to do so. We are not responsible or liable for any claim arising from the content of any such discussions or postings or for any error, defamation, libel, slander, omission, falsehood, obscenity, pornography, profanity, danger, or inaccuracy contained in any information contained within such locations on the Site. You are prohibited from posting or transmitting any unlawful, threatening, libelous, defamatory, obscene, scandalous, inflammatory, pornographic, or profane materials or any material that could constitute or encourage conduct that would be considered a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability, or otherwise violate any law. You are likewise prohibited from posting any false claims against any company or individual. We will fully cooperate with any law enforcement authorities or court order requesting or directing us to disclose the identity of anyone posting any such information or materials. By posting messages and/or content on the Friends In Business (Scams 101) Message Board, you give permission for Lesley Fountain/Friends In Business/Shoestring Success Publications to display, distribute and use the posting and content for publication, advertising, promotion, excerption or example. You grant Lesley Fountain/Friends In Business/Shoestring Success Publications complete, perpetual, but non-exclusive rights to use, archive, reproduce, adapt, modify, distribute, sub-license, repurpose, rework, compile, or offer for sale or resale the messages, postings or content appearing on this site in whole or in part, throughout the world and universe, on a royalty-free basis without remuneration. If you cannot accept or agree with the terms of service for this website and discussion board, you are advised not to post on this board. In closing, I would like to remind you once again that it is still legal, in this great country of ours, to express a PERSONAL OPINION, as long as it is presented as opinion and not as fact. And finally, all you scammers out there will do well to remember that TRUTH IS AN ABSOLUTE DEFENSE against charges of libel, defamation, and slander... so if you're operating just a hop, skip, and jump ahead of the law, you might want to think twice before doing anything stupid... (AND SHAME ON YOU!!). |